Nothing Like a Good Debate!
By pmd on Jun 5, 2008 in News & Politics |
My friend, Clayton works for Al Jazeera TV. He tried to attend the AIPAC policy conference this week and you will see the results. The craziest part about this video is that what AIPAC does fundamentally goes against what Israel is about. In Israel, there are so many people with differing opinions who have it out in every forum imaginable. Of course, back in the good old US of A, home of democracy, a REAL debate is impossible to have.
good ol’ AIPAC….
So this kind of a super-controlled “talking points” press conference is a regular occurence in Washington, and yet the US government gets all up-in-arms when Iran hosts a conference on the holocaust?? it’s like two sides of the same shitty coin!
the USA needs to start checking the man in the mirror, like michael.
MILES DAVIS CAT | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7985100635045440998&hl=en
At the latest Doha Debate held at the prestigious Oxford Union in the United Kingdom on May 1st, two-thirds of the student audience approved a motion claiming that Israel’s supporters are stifling Western debate about Israel’s actions. The event at the world famous debating society of Oxford University marked the first time the Doha Debates have been held outside Qatar. The Debate took place amid mounting controversy over the role of the pro-Israel lobby in the United States and accusations that it has suppressed criticism of Israel – a charge that the lobby vigorously denies. Norman Finkelstein, an American academic and a leading critic of Israeli policies, argued in favour of the motion claiming that the pro-Israel lobby sows confusion to avoid being held to account. The journalist and writer Andrew Cockburn also supported this view, claiming there are “red lines” in discussing Israel that no politician or journalist in the US would dare cross for fear of being demonised or driven out of public life. Dr Martin Indyk, former US Ambassador to Israel and Director of the Saban Center for Middle East Policy, argued strongly against the motion, saying that the recent ‘firestorms’ around President Carter’s book and the Walt and Mearsheimer report are proof of a lively debate on the subject . His fellow panellist David Aaronovitch, the British journalist and broadcaster, dismissed accusations of conspiracy around the lobby and said that there simply isn’t a lobby in the UK in the same way that there is in the United States. A group of students from universities and high schools in Doha travelled to the UK to join students from Oxford to question the speakers.
MILES DAVIS CAT | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
liberal rosenberg aljazsaaria news station spreads an an anti israel agenda to billions of muslims homes.
Even bin laden praised al jazara coverage of the recent situation in gaza.
E | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
Al Jazeera does not push an anti israel agenda…bin laden also likes little brother, but you still fuck with them…
listen i only posted this because I grew up going to israel, have family there, and want peace and an open dialog so Israelis and Paliestinians can live in peace. what groups like AIPAC do does nothing to lead to peace. And I expect more out of Americans. It’s very disheartening.
pmd | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
E: shut the fuck up and learn more about the media, please!
PMD probably knows a lot more about israel than you do.
MILES DAVIS CAT | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
besides, the AIPAC lobby has only one goal: the promotion of israeli interests in america. obviously they’re not going to react well when you have a guy asking politically sensitive questions, never even mind the fact that he works for al-jazeera.
MILES DAVIS CAT | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
Maybe english al jazerra is not as biased as the regular al jazerra but it is still biased against israel
Al jazerra even got kicked out of israel, i think. You know your bad when you get a cosign from bin laden.
bin laden does not listen to little brother or any rap its not allowed for radical muslims
aipac is for peace and making israel more secure, Why is that wrong israel neeeds all the help it could get
E | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
alright MILES DAVIS CAT , im sorry e thug
you think I never been to israel too
let me guess Israel and the U.S.A. are the worst countries in the world right?
E | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
E — you really need to do some research on what AIPAC does and then decide honestly if they’re looking for peace or if they’re looking to promote a certain agenda here in the states.
All I can say is that the reporter who did this piece wrote a book on the Israeli peace process and though he is not Jewish or Israeli, loves Israel and that is how I have gotten to know him. Al Jazeera’s ENGLISH programming has never appeared anti-Israel in my experience. And regardless–we’re talking about THIS piece and THIS reporter and the fact that he was unable to ask important questions. What kind of dialog is that? How does that lead to peace?
It’s just disgusting that to be elected to a powerful office in the states, you have to kiss AIPAC’s ass even if they do not truly work towards peace in the middle east. It’s a shame because there are plenty of Jewish American groups that truly promote peace for everyone.
pmd | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
How do they not make peace by trying to strengthen Israel?
from there site
“Support Israel’s Quest for Peace
Members of the House and Senate are circulating letters to President Bush that reinforce the key principles America should stand by as it works to help Israel achieve peace. The letters reiterate Israel’s right to self-defense, call on the U.S. to stand strongly with Israel at the U.N. and urge the president to press the Arab states to do more to support Israeli-Palestinian talks.”
http://www.aipac.org/694.asp#12668
The rest of the world Hates israel i dont see the problem with one group trying to make at least one country stand by Israel.
E | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
Hey Pete.
Do you know or did you know Samuel Sheinbein back in the day?
What is he up to these days over in Israel?
Merengue>ModernHipHop | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
If AIPAC is “for peace” as you suggest, then why were two of their members found passing classified information to israeli sources?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/27/eveningnews/main639143.shtml
doesn’t seem very “peaceful” does it?
MILES DAVIS CAT | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
few weeks ago, as Israel’s military intelligence claimed — as it has been doing regularly since the early 1990s — that Iran is only a year or so away from the “point of no return” on developing a nuclear warhead. Netanyahu was at it again. “Iran could be the first undeterrable nuclear power,” he warned, adding: “This is a Jewish problem like Hitler was a Jewish problem. The future of the Jewish people depends on the future of Israe
emun | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
yo pmd
Al Jazeera has been reporting that it has come into the possession of “a document claiming to be Israel’s terms on which final status negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians can begin.”Al Jazeera’s Jerusalem correspondent said the document
lays out some broad principles that Israel believes both sides should sign up to as a starting point for formal negotiations… Some of the things are fairly obvious – renouncing words and actions associated with war, recognition of United Nations Security Council resolutions… Also, previous peace endeavors such as the Madrid conference of 1991 and the declaration of principles signed between Yasser Arafat and the late Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1993. The document claimed to be a new Israeli proposal for a ‘Declaration of Principles’ that presents ideas for a final settlement that include a land swap, withdrawal from settlements, and the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
free at last think god we free at last…
emun | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
DONT TAZE ME BRO!!!!
Noble Peon | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
few weeks ago, as Israel’s military intelligence claimed — as it has been doing regularly since the early 1990s — that Iran is only a year or so away from the “point of no return” on developing a nuclear warhead. Netanyahu was at it again. “Iran could be the first undeterrable nuclear power,” he warned, adding: “This is a Jewish problem like Hitler was a Jewish problem. The future of the Jewish people depends on the future of Israe
emun | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
^^^
pretty laughable talk from israel, a nation whose military has one of the worst human rights records on the planet, and also has nuclear weapons, receives billions of dollars per year in military aid and military technology.
MILES D CAT | Jun 5, 2008 | Reply
“If AIPAC is “for peace” as you suggest, then why were two of their members found passing classified information to israeli sources?”
what does some people alledegly spying from aipac on the usa have to do with the middle east peace procces?
E | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
“pretty laughable talk from israel, a nation whose military has one of the worst human rights records on the planet, and also has nuclear weapons, receives billions of dollars per year in military aid and military technology.”
yea worst human rights record…….. arabs kill MILLIONS of blacks in darfur and nobody gives a shit
you are acting like arab countries dont get billions of money too and most of israel money goes back to the usa
E | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
it’s amazing the double standards for racism/bigotry in the USA.
ABSURD SENSITIVE SPECTRUM END
Criticize AIPAC/right-wing Israeli foreign policies as unlikely to reach peace with Palestine
IF a non-Jew: you’re an “anti-semite”
IF ur a Jew: you’re a “self-hating Jew”
WTF it’s a policy difference, not bigotry. As Rosenberg said, many Israelis, as well as US Jews like Rosenberg himself, are against AIPAC policies.
It would be as absurd to label AIPAC “self-hating Jews” since they disagree with Rosenberg.
ABSURD RACIST SPECTRUM END
People say blatantly racist/bigoted stuff against Arabs/Muslims, nobody gets fired or criticized. Michael Savage said “the US should kill 100 million Muslims”. mAnn Coulter said “we should kill the Arab leaders, & force the population to convert to Christianity”. Some other right-wing douche woman criticized Rachel Ray for wearing a Palestinian scarf. Not only racist, but anti-freedom of speech telling others what to wear. Douche ReThuglican Congressman Virgil Goode said that fellow congressman “Keith Ellison (a black muslim from MN) should not be inducted using a Koran, that would mean he’s not a real loyal American”. Even tho Obama is Christian, many people are advocating to not vote for him since they perceive him to be a Muslim.
Point is that shyt is actually racist, & if similar sings were said against Jews or other US ethnic/racial groups, said racists’ careers would be self-destroyed.
USA, land of double standards.
No Mames Buey | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
No Mames Buey what did you type that has to do with APIAC?
Some one show me PROOF that AIPAC is not for peace in Israel
E | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
we already have showed you proof. AIPAC isn’t about peace, they are about protecting israeli interests in the US.
don’t forget that AIPAC is nothing but a lobby group, albeit a powerful one. they are not fighting for peace, they are lobbying for more military aid, and to suppress the media from telling the real stories about IDF atrocities against the palestinians. they don’t want peace, they want everything for israel, nothing for anyone else. that’s their BUSINESS, it’s what they do. peace has nothing to do with it.
here’s a better question: why don’t YOU show us some proof that AIPAC’s aim is peace in the middle east, since you so fervently believe that? there must be some documentary evidence of their “peaceful” work that you can dig up?
or better yet, watch the doha debate link that i posted up earlier, for the real story.
MILES D CAT | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
from AIPAC’s mission statement, on their website:
http://www.aipac.org/about_AIPAC/default.asp
“As America’s leading pro-Israel lobby, AIPAC works with both Democratic and Republican political leaders to enact public policy that strengthens the vital U.S.-Israel relationship. With the support of its members nationwide, AIPAC has worked with Congress and the Executive Branch on numerous critical initiatives — from securing vital foreign aid for Israel to stopping Iran’s illicit nuclear program. Some highlights include:
Overwhelmingly passing resolutions honoring Israel’s 60th anniversary by a 417 to 0 vote in the House and by unanimous consent in the Senate, where the measure was cosponsored by all 100 senators.
Strongly backing Israel’s right to defend itself in the face of daily rocket attacks by passing a House resolution in a near unanimous vote, 404 to 1.
Securing critical foreign aid to Israel, which totals $2.42 billion in 2008 and provides military aid and refugee assistance.
Strengthening U.S.-Israel energy cooperation by passing legislation that establishes a grant program that funds joint projects between U.S. and Israeli entities in the field of alternative energy.
Calling upon the administration in a letter signed by more than 180 members of the House to provide strict guarantees that the proposed sale of sophisticated technology to Saudi Arabia will not harm U.S. forces or undercut Israel’s qualitative military edge.
Strongly urging the administration to take its decision to designate Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps as a terrorist group and weapons proliferator through an amendment supported by 76 senators and key legislation passed in the House of Representatives.
Strengthening U.S.-Israel homeland security cooperation by passing landmark legislation creating an office within the Department of Homeland Security to support joint research and development projects between the United States and key allies such as Israel.
Calling for the strengthening of UNIFIL’s mandate to stop arms shipments to Hizballah across the Syrian border by supporting a letter signed by 104 House members.
Highlighting the need to stop weapons smuggling in Gaza through a letter signed by 32 senators urging the United States to press Egypt to take action.
Passing a House resolution congratulating Israel on the 40th anniversary of the Six-Day War, praising the Jewish state for reunifying Jerusalem and protecting religious freedom in the city, and calling on the president to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Reiterating standards for the Palestinian government through letters signed by 259 House members and 79 senators urging the EU and United States not to provide aid or grant recognition to any Palestinian government until it fulfills internationally backed requirements.
Prohibiting U.S. aid and contacts with the Hamas-led PA until its leaders recognize Israel’s right to exist, renounce violence and ratify previous Israeli-Palestinian peace agreements.
Extending U.S.-backed loan guarantees to Israel until 2011 and renewing the authority to transfer U.S. military equipment to be stored in Israel for use in a potential crisis.
Ratifying an agreement that led to the Israeli medical service Magen David Adom’s admission to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement (IRC).
Condemning Iran for holding a conference casting doubt on whether the Holocaust happened. The resolutions reproached the anti-Semitic statements made by Iranian leaders and asserted the United States’ commitment to preventing a nuclear Iran.
Passing the Iran Freedom Support Act, which renews and strengthens sanctions aimed at curtailing funds and international cooperation necessary for Iran to pursue nuclear weapons.
Passing the Iran Libya Sanctions Act, which seeks to reduce funds for Iran’s nuclear weapons program by allowing sanctions against foreign companies investing in Iran’s energy sector.
Reauthorizing the Iran Nonproliferation Act to include sanctions against entities providing technology to the missile and weapons of mass destruction programs of both Iran and Syria.
Fostering U.S.-Israel homeland security cooperation by supporting the countries’ efforts to sign a landmark Memorandum of Understanding and taking U.S. homeland security professionals on trips to Israel to meet with their Israeli counterparts.
Passing congressional resolutions that demonstrate overwhelming support for Israel’s right to self-defense in the face of attacks by Hizballah and Hamas.
Designating Hizballah’s TV station as a terrorist entity through legislative language as well as support of a letter to President Bush signed by 51 senators.
Passing the Syrian Accountability Act, which allows the president to sanction Syria for its continued involvement in Lebanon and support of terrorism.
Increasing military aid to Israel during the height of the Palestinian intifada by working for $1 billion in government grants that help cover the escalating costs of the war on terrorism.
Keeping world pressure on Hamas, by working to pass a House Resolution before PA elections that warned of serious policy implications for U.S.-Palestinian relations should Hamas be part of the Palestinian government.”
nothing in there sounds particularly “peaceful”, does it? they are more concerned with denying weapons to everyone else, while strengthening israel via increased arms shipments from the USA.
AIPAC is not an organization for peace, they are about strengthening israel militarily, at all costs.
PS: i believe you just got SONNED… by aipac’s own website. how’s that taste?
MILES D CAT | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
How am I sonned you dick head, I never said apaic does not support israeli interests thats what lobbies do and that it’s purpose
How does supporting Israel mean your against peace, you fucking retard
“why don’t YOU show us some proof that AIPAC’s aim is peace in the middle east”
“Support Israel’s Quest for Peace
Members of the House and Senate are circulating letters to President Bush that reinforce the key principles America should stand by as it works to help Israel achieve peace. The letters reiterate Israel’s right to self-defense, call on the U.S. to stand strongly with Israel at the U.N. and urge the president to press the Arab states to do more to support Israeli-Palestinian talks.”
http://www.aipac.org/694.asp#12668
“suppress the media from telling the real stories about IDF atrocities against the palestinians”
and Palestinians launching rockets on Israeli civilians purposely is cool right
again show me proof that AIPEC does not support the peace processes
try NOT to post stuff that shows:
AIPEC suppourting Israel
Muslim mistreatment in media
E | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
AIPAC doesn’t support the peace process. why? read their website, it’s already been posted. by me.
if you can’t understand how stifling debate and keeping the two sides from negotiating openly is not supporting peace, then i can’t fucking help to educate you. get your head out of aipac’s ass and try doing a little bit of research on both sides of the argument.
and please WATCH THE DOHA DEBATE LINK.
MILES D CAT | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
Miles officially sonned E
BTW, I’m neither jewish, muslim, or arab, hence my 100% impartiality as The Sonning Referree.
I will call war-mongering as war-mongering, whether done by Arabs, right-wingnut AIPAC jews, or Gee Dubbz WOAT Bush.
No Mames Buey aka The Sonning Referree | Jun 6, 2008 | Reply
Yo rosenberg i just started listening to Juan Epstien a couple of days ago and im addicted (no bobby brown) u and ciph are fucking hilarious and i needed to say that shit keep it up.
black&mild | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply
peter — props homie, most of my closest friends are jewish and they range from dovish to hawkish. as a muslim i obviously would like to see the hawkish ones tone it down, but to each his own
all i can say is you’re cool peoples in my book for putting this video out there just to let people know that aipac could do itself – and israel – a favor by not being so friggin one-sided
chea | Jun 8, 2008 | Reply