Part 1 of Last Night’s Show
By pmd on Aug 6, 2007 in Real Late |
Could Wayne be the 2nd coming of Pac?? I know it sounds crazy, but he may be the most pure artist in mainstream hip hop today…
Part 1: Download
also if interested here are just the clips of the Pac discussion…apparently someone posted them on all hip hop and a near message board riot ensued…
Part 1 (The Claim): Download
Part 2 (The Response): Download
The Thread : View
One thing I noticed from reading the thread. It is always disappointing to be reminded that black people can be just as racist as white people and in fact–in 2007–feel a lot more comfortable just throwing it out there. It doesn’t hurt my feelings in the least–it just makes me a bit sad, because I’ve always stupidly thought of black people being more progressive than white people. I’ve learned over time that everyone is equally fucked. Enjoy kids. At least the readers of Rosenbergradio aren’t so damn ignorant..
He might be…
I was hoping that Katrina would mature his political consciousness. Still, he could be the one! he just needs to lay off the drugs and let an older god put him on. No baby.
dj.eurok | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
The problem with Weezy Goldberg is the
extreme arrogance + mediocre competence
That is very annoying.
Jay-Z was always extremely arrogant on his album, but at least he was an excellent rapper. Even if he’s not the GOAT he claims to be, he’s at least Top20 right?
OTOH Weezy claims to be the best rapper, when he’s average at best. For instance pretty much 80% of the MCs Rosenberg plays on his show son Wayne lyrically, voice, & flow.
It would be as if Stephon Marbury claimed to be better than Michael Jordan, or Andy Roddick claimed to be better than Roger Federer, or Landon Donovan claimed to be better than Ronaldinho. Doubt it!
NoMamesBuey | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
Nah, dont even get me started on this guy. Best rapper alive my ass. By saying shit like that, he just turns me off, the dude is elevated only because of the mediocrity of todays game. Wayne wouldnt get any hype 15 years ago.
Imjustlikemusiq | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
No, no and NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pete!!!!! WTF????? This post made you lose some credibility in my book…. Just being honest…..
Ivan | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
Not recognizing Wayne as one of the best in the game right now = playing yourself.
These people need to put their J5 bootlegs down and actually listen to some of Wheezies lyrics.
madtapes | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
@madtapes,
I listened to The Carter 2 album. Mediocre. Meh beats, very annoying voice, & meh lyricism, very narrow subject matter.
How is that “one of the best in the game”?
Some MC that actually IS a top-tier rapper needs to beef with Wayne (pause). Can you imagine the epic ethering that would ensue if Black Thought, Chino XL, Phonte or Kweli beefed with Wayne? Hell even young upcoming MCs like The Game, Apathy, or Termanology would murk Wayne in a rap battle.
NoMamesBuey | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
^the ethering of Wayne in a rap battle by an actual top-tier MC would be nothing less than
BARBARIC!
NoMamesBuey | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
Phonte?
-you’re kidding right?
madtapes | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
a few things…
if you wanna question my credibility cuz I think Wayne is among the nicest..thats up to you..is he in my personal all time top 10 favs? nah…but the dude IS AN ARTIST. he has developed and changed, hes experimented, he pushes the envelope…is he flawed?? no doubt, but he has a lot of fucking potential..
but i will say this to no names…
chino xl?? what great albums has he made? fuck i can barely name any important Chino songs…Black thought? hes dope, but talk about a guy who has never developed or grown..i dont know ANYTHING about thought..he has no character
kweli and tay are dope there…
pmd | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
@ Rosenberg,
dude I’m not “questioning your credibility”, because you think Wayne is great, & I think Wayne is mediocre/OK at best. Don’t take it personal (c) Gang Starr. If everyone made a list of great MCs, OK MCs, & wack MCs, everyone would find a discrepancy with everyone else’s list. 1 such discrepancy doesn’t mean everyone is questioning all others’ “credibility” LOL.
Chino XL.
Chino has made 3 albums, all excellent lyrically, among the best lyrical MC performances of all time. Chino IMHO is the GOAT at hilarious battle rap, & punchline rap. Chino also has interesting introspective/everyman life struggle songs. The beats are good, but aren’t classic. However, one can’t knock an MC’s rap skills based off of his beats. IMHO 1996 Here To Save You All is a classic.
Black Thought
Rosenberg said “talk about a guy that’s never developed or grown”
Rosenberg, have you listened to entire Roots’ discography? If so I don’t know how you would make that statement.
BT is 1 of the most versatile MCs of all time.
1 topics BT is prolly best known for lyrical battle raps, but BT has also covered many other topics incl. politics/socioeconomic commentary, love/relationship, introspective, etc.
2 flows BT has a million flows, even singing, doing Louis Armstrong-type jazz “scat raps”, doing Darrel Hammond-quality impersonations of Big Daddy Kane & Kool G Rap on that song “Boom”, etc
3 types of beats - the Roots have done all types of beats - jazz, boom bap east coast, neosoul, rock, hell even opera “Concierto of the Desperado”. Thought is nice rapping on all these types of music!
4 live show. The Roots are reknown for their live concerts, & Thought is the leader of their live show.
Rosenberg, given Thought’s legendary resume, how the fock can you say Thought has never developed? BARBARIC!!
How could anyone seriously say that Little Wayne could come close in any type of rap contest with either Chino or Black Thought? WTF?!
But Rosenberg, don’t take my opinion as a personal attack, homes. This isn’t Fox News, just becuase we disagree on a few MCs’ skills, doesn’t mean I have “beef” with you personally, LOL. Keep up the good work on your show.
NoMamesBuey | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
no no man..i wasnt referring to u…i was referring to just ur thoughts on those mcs..the other part was directed at Ivan
sorry dude i shouldve clarified
pmd | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
Hey Pete. How can you pose that question about Wanye being the 2nd coming of Pac? Man Wanye punchlines don’t even make sense.Like the person mentioned the music you play on your show son Wanye.A little dissapointed in you saying that when you play music from artist how are so superior in lyrics(Sean P, Kweli,Monch,Little Brother,etc)
Dana | Aug 6, 2007 | Reply
man there are a lot of people who are
A - very sensitive
and
B - dont know what an ill MC is…
Sean P is Dope as is Little Bro and Kweli and Monch…and out of that group–Monch and Phonte are ILL MCs..Kweli is an amazing artist but not a VICIOUS MC..
Lil wayne can rap..like really rap..he has different flows..he pushes the envelope and pushes himself..hes not perfect and he has a ways to go..but he has incredible flow and charisma for days…
am i the only one who understands this??
like dont get it twisted..I’ve been listening to the people you just mentioned since they came out..each one of em..but you have to really look at who is taking MCing to the next level..Pharoahe is incredible–as is Tay..but none of the others have the potential to CHANGE THE GAME..
not saying wayne will, but he has the POTENTIAL..as does Kardinal I believe
pmd | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Considering the attention this thread got, it just adds to Rosenberg’s point… He has the Potential to do big things.. He is well on his way already…love him or hate him, he can flat out flow and keeps droppin bangers…
Namsier27 | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Namiser27 said “Considering the attention this thread got”
with that logic, back in 1991 MC Hammer, or 1997 Puff Daddy would have also “been ill MCs”.
Attention has no relation positive or negative to MC skill.
NoMamesBuey | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
There’s no comparing Weezy to ‘Pac. ‘Pac’s “Thug Life” music was expression of hoping that one day, gangbangers, thugs and prisoners would unite and make a change. Weezy’s “Thug” music is purely the idolization of the drug world, and nothing more. The two artists portray the world in somewhat similar ways (Weezy’s lyrical steez is garbage IMO), yet with completely different motives.
To quote Weezy from his Show Me What You Got freestyle:
“I have no brain, I’m retarded/ We are not the same, I’m a martian/”
I have a friend who told me “yooo, sooooooon, that line was niiiiiice.”
SMH
Ivan | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Oh, and Pete…to clarify:
As a fellow Tribe member ();-D , I didn’t mean what I said in a negative way. As I reread it, I can see how you may or may not have taken it as a putdown. If so, my bad…Still a fan…. 1
Ivan | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Wayne has his moments & quite frankly he could be the next Pac. He’s constantly shirtless, tattooed & runs pretty heavy with a well known producer. I was never a fan of Pac & thought he couldn’t touch BIG. Could be my Brooklyn bias. There are certainly better MCs out there, but not with the mainstream appeal that Lil Wayne has (why Wayne has it is another story). I’m sad cats can’t see the growth & range of Black Thought. Plus, last I checked Kweli has a classic album (Train of Thought) but Wayne has 0.
Dmax | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
I agree that Wayne has potential to go down as one of the greats. I don’t really see the Pac comparison though. Wayne is all about the flow and the punchlines, Pac was more about the content and delivery (vocal inflections, word emphasis, etc). The thing Wayne has going for him along with the vicious flow is a very distinctive voice. Love it or hate it, you know it’s him from the first word of any verse in an era where half the southern rappers sound interchangable.
I’m also going to take issue with the comments about Black Thought never evolving. He has gone from being simply another “instrument” in the band, to being able to shoulder the load as the focal point on some of the more recent albums. He has also gone from mainly a free verse type of MC to a point where he sounds comfortable addressing social/political issues as well is getting introspective. I don’t even have to talk about his stage prowess. The only thing Thought lacks is charisma, but as a pure MC I’d have a hard time naming ten better.
JTH | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Maybe I don’t see the development with Thought, because The Roots have lost me over the last couple of records. I need to go back and listen more..
pmd | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
people are always gonna hate, but it’s all good as long as you’re true to yourself and true to what you do
nation | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
I understand that Wanye pushes himself on different features and he does different flows.Right now he is the face of hip-hop, not with rhymes but his image, popularity, and charisma.But do you really think he can make an album of the quality of say Little Brother first two albums, Sean Price 2 albums or Ghostface catolog? Also do you think Wanye can come up with meaningful concept songs for instance like Monch “Guns Are Drawn” or make something that is like CNN for his people like the Roots album “The Game Theory”? You have to also think about this if true lyricists who are about concept and meaning were more accepted then people will see Wanye weakness.Alchemist said on his video interview on hiphopgame.com that Wanye focuses on the science of his words but doesn’t focus on the science of the beat.To be an ill MC you got to have the be good in both of those areas the ALC mentioned.But like you said in a way time will tell.Stay Up.Still will be checking out the show.One.
Dana | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Part of the progression of Thought has been from a battle MC to more of a story telling MC. Just listen to Clock with No Hands from Game Theory and contrast it with most of the stuff from Illadelph Halflife. I do agree on his charisma deficiency (though I think too much is made of swagger & charisma and not enough is made of lyrical excellence). In terms of Wayne, what he has done to transcend Hip Hop is a tactic Jay-Z utilized, the collab. Getting on Robin Thicke’s record has certainly catapulted his popularity. And he’s also kept his name relevant via the mixtape game. To keep up with Pac, all Weezy F. Baby needs is to jump on a movie.
Dmax | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Pete, no press is bad press, never forget that
Imjustlikemusiq | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
Yea I think Wayne is one the best “rappers” out today which is really isn’t that hard considering most of the Bullsh*t out. He’s talented no doubt, but he has been lyrically lazy lately on some remixes, (see the “I am a Martian” comment above)….I thought his verse on the song was terrible. I was quite shocked at how elementary it was.
Tjack | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
please… dont even put Pac and Weezy in the same sentence
Eb | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
I won’t front–I was disappointed by a bunch of Wayne’s recent appearances, but I still believe he’s pretty exceptional as far as talent goes.
The reality is this, though…and only a few people will know I’m kickin the real…
If you lived thru Pac’s career and remember it step by step–he wasn’t all that before he died. He became a huge cultural icon in the hood and that cannot be overlooked, but as an actual RAP ARTIST–he is VASTLY overrated and everyone is scared to say it.
The east coast did not jump on Pac’s back til after he died. I know it, you know it, the American people know it.
For all of these so called cats who worship Pac (from Ny esp) — you show me one who consistently bumps Pac ALBUMS in his car over say BIG or Mobb. They don’t. I know a million true hip hop heads from the east coast and VERY few spend their time listening to Pac.
God bless em. He was an amazing and interesting soul, but as a rapper–beyond about 5-10 songs–I’m good…
pmd | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
1 concept I think many people don’t grasp, is that 2 smart, music/rap “heads” might have a fundamental disagreement.
This does not necessarily mean that 1 person “doesn’t get it”, “is an idiot”, “is hating”, etc.
Rosenberg, you did it with the comment that “Lil Wayne is an exceptional rapper. If you disagree you must not understand what an ill MC is”.
Rosenberg, you’re not unique here, IMHO many people do this.
Look at some bloggers that are shitting on the new Common “Finding Forever” album. These dudes are making douche-worthy statements like “those who actually enjoy this, don’t respect real rap”.
IMHO the new Common album is very good, although not a classic. So MF those particular douche-bag bloggers for implying I & many others “don’t respect real rap”. They should’ve just kept their comments to the FF album without insulting its fans.
My point is that it’s rare to find “consensus universal objective truth” on any music topic. Sometimes, the person you disagree with is a moron. Other times, the person is smart, you just happen to disagree.
NoMamesBuey | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
good post
pmd | Aug 7, 2007 | Reply
HOW COULD YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE COMPARE A LEGEND RAISED BY OFFICIAL BLACK PANTHERS TO SOME YOUNG COKE HEAD WHO CALLS HIS LOVER HIS DADDY ? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND OR DO YOU RIDE THE SAME SLOPES AS HE DOES ? IS WAYNE GOOD YES BUT TO COMPARE HIM TO A LEGEND WAS AN INSULT TO THE GREATES ALIVE. …
STAYLOW | Aug 8, 2007 | Reply
i don’t understand why its unacceptable to even question tupac at all. it’s crazy the god pedestal that he gets put on. you can’t say shit or the hip hop cops come after you…it’s very strange considering the guy is the most overrated in the history of the game.
bsidewinzagain | Aug 8, 2007 | Reply
What I find more disturbing is these morons on allhiphop who have piggybacked PMD’s discussion topic & made it an avenue to call him a stupid white boy who doesn’t understand hip hop. As an adult now (30+) & going to mad shows, I recognize (a.) hip hop is not just for black folks (b.) you don’t get instant credibility because you’re black and (c.) having a contrary point of view doesn’t make you an idiot.
Pac is revered with this ridiculous martyr status. I guess Wayne could come close because of his stature & purely off buzz. But lyrically, 2Pac has shown more depth (pause). Dude’s certainly not untouchable (pause).
Dmax | Aug 8, 2007 | Reply